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Wisconsin Fishing Discussion
Wake Boats Effecting our Wisconsin Waters
Displaying 61 to 75 of 119 posts
Ballast water and invasive species is just one issue. Shoreline erosion, lakebed scouring down to at least 15 feet, aquatic vegetation uprooting, loss of fish habitat, and disruption of other lake users are each equally as large of issues. Where do one's rights end and another's start?!
I wholeheartedly agree with that approach - would definitely be the most expedient path.
That being said, for here and now, the only way that there wouldn't be water in a wake boat ballast tank, is if the tank has never ever been filled before, and is brand new. If the tank was ever filled (even one time the previous year) then there is still water in it.
If the water isn't from the current trip, then the water is from the previous trip, or the trip before that, or the trip before that. There is no way to fully drain the water ever, that's the whole problem! You actually have to treat the ballast bags and pump with RV antifreeze in the winter so it doesn't freeze.
It is certainty that they don't fully drain.
It's like standing in front of a burning building, and saying fire, what fire, prove it....
That being said, for here and now, the only way that there wouldn't be water in a wake boat ballast tank, is if the tank has never ever been filled before, and is brand new. If the tank was ever filled (even one time the previous year) then there is still water in it.
If the water isn't from the current trip, then the water is from the previous trip, or the trip before that, or the trip before that. There is no way to fully drain the water ever, that's the whole problem! You actually have to treat the ballast bags and pump with RV antifreeze in the winter so it doesn't freeze.
It is certainty that they don't fully drain.
It's like standing in front of a burning building, and saying fire, what fire, prove it....
I think the quickest route would have something in place that deals with how the ballast could be drained. Such as changing the plumbing and so forth, though i know little about how wake boats work. But if something was in place that manufacturers and wake boat owners had to change then proof of it being done or not would exist. Now, simply writing citations would do nothing, as wake board boat owners would simply take it to court. Then the burden of proof would fall on the state to show there was indeed water in the ballast. And any kind of search, as wake boats are configured now, seems to run into 4A issues. I can see why the enforcement side is hesitant, my guess is the state does not want a bunch of lawsuits for violating peoples 4A brought against them. Again I think a law passed requiring manufacturing change and plumbing change is the route to go. Then stops and checks are simplified and could then get around the 4A issues.
Thanks G.
Cisco are one of the few fish that feed on Spiny Water Fleas, and luckily Plum is absolutely loaded with Cisco, so it's keeping their population in check. A shallower lake with no Cisco wouldn't fare so well and would have constant algae blooms.
The Spiny Water Fleas have also made their way to Star and Trout lakes too. What beautiful northwoods lake is next?
In regards to a boat / ballast tank inspection, we know that a warden can board or search any boat where they suspect that there may be a violation.
We also know that a wake boat is unable to fully drain their ballast tank (this is a known, and I'm not aware of anyone disputing it) so how can a warden N O T suspect a violation - it is a certainty! If they're on the water 10 out of 10 they're violating!
Heck, a warden wouldn't even have to search a wake boat. All wake boats could just be handed a ticket for non compliance of state law when they leave a lake unless they show proof they've had their tank / piping updated.
This really shouldn't be complicated. Wake boats are in violation of state law, and folks are wringing their hands and nothing is being done about it. Meanwhile wardens can chase down live well tanks and minnow buckets while the main offender just keeps on trucking and dumping without any concerns about getting an inspection or a fine.
Cisco are one of the few fish that feed on Spiny Water Fleas, and luckily Plum is absolutely loaded with Cisco, so it's keeping their population in check. A shallower lake with no Cisco wouldn't fare so well and would have constant algae blooms.
The Spiny Water Fleas have also made their way to Star and Trout lakes too. What beautiful northwoods lake is next?
In regards to a boat / ballast tank inspection, we know that a warden can board or search any boat where they suspect that there may be a violation.
We also know that a wake boat is unable to fully drain their ballast tank (this is a known, and I'm not aware of anyone disputing it) so how can a warden N O T suspect a violation - it is a certainty! If they're on the water 10 out of 10 they're violating!
Heck, a warden wouldn't even have to search a wake boat. All wake boats could just be handed a ticket for non compliance of state law when they leave a lake unless they show proof they've had their tank / piping updated.
This really shouldn't be complicated. Wake boats are in violation of state law, and folks are wringing their hands and nothing is being done about it. Meanwhile wardens can chase down live well tanks and minnow buckets while the main offender just keeps on trucking and dumping without any concerns about getting an inspection or a fine.
Ban them is my vote they are a danger to anyone else on the water plus just totally destroying our natural resources. With the size of the wake can't imagine being in a small boat, kayak or paddle board when a wake boat blows by with the intention to show off and looking at the wake smashing into your boat. These owners could care less what there affecting time to ban them. I don't see any law that would be a fix to this problem it's just going to get worse each year more and more wake boats are built and more and more are bought and the damage spreads. Lakes are to be enjoyed not destroyed.
I probably hate wake boats as much if not more than anyone else on here. I think the issue has already been brought up some posts down, in that's its essentially a 4th amendment issue. Like it or not at some point a court will have to decide what's reasonable for a warden to do search wise to determine if there is water in a wake boat. I'm sure the time a person needs to be detained to do this would come into play as well as probable cause for the check. I see this likely going nowhere anytime soon and most likely being tied up in court for years based on 4th amendment issues.
I believe we (myself included) overthink things sometimes.
This is fairly simple. Here is what we know...
*To stop the spread of invasive species, Wisconsin has enacted a law that requires ballast tanks and live wells to be fully drained prior to a watercraft leaving any given body of water.
*We know that wake boats are unable to fully drain their ballast tanks.
*Wardens have the authority via state law to inspect a live well or ballast tank if they suspect a violation.
*Drained / emptied ballast tanks in wake boats hold more water than most 100% full live wells in fishing boats.
*Wardens are currently inspecting fishing boat live wells but give a pass to wake boats. .
Does the above make any sense to anyone?
Enforce the law evenly across all platforms. Nothing more, nothing less. No special treatment for this boat or that boat. Sail boat to fishing boat to wake boat.
I really believe many, many, folks will wish they had this back when their home lake gets ruined by an invasive species. As presently managed, how can invasives not spread rapidly?
Ponder this, a wake boat goes to Plum Lake to
go wakeboarding on their summer vacation. The next day they decide to try Big Arb, and dump 30 gallons of water full of spiny water fleas! The next day Muskellunge. Then they go back home and hop on Geneva or Delevan.
Why wouldn't wake boat manufacturers issue a recall where they modify the ballast tank to more fully drain like a live well tank would? Lots of states have similar laws to Wisconsin.
If wake boat sales go down because the laws on the books start being enforced, I guarantee you they will fix this very quickly!
If we continue to give wake boats a pass, our lakes will get ruined day by day, one lake at a time...
This is fairly simple. Here is what we know...
*To stop the spread of invasive species, Wisconsin has enacted a law that requires ballast tanks and live wells to be fully drained prior to a watercraft leaving any given body of water.
*We know that wake boats are unable to fully drain their ballast tanks.
*Wardens have the authority via state law to inspect a live well or ballast tank if they suspect a violation.
*Drained / emptied ballast tanks in wake boats hold more water than most 100% full live wells in fishing boats.
*Wardens are currently inspecting fishing boat live wells but give a pass to wake boats. .
Does the above make any sense to anyone?
Enforce the law evenly across all platforms. Nothing more, nothing less. No special treatment for this boat or that boat. Sail boat to fishing boat to wake boat.
I really believe many, many, folks will wish they had this back when their home lake gets ruined by an invasive species. As presently managed, how can invasives not spread rapidly?
Ponder this, a wake boat goes to Plum Lake to
go wakeboarding on their summer vacation. The next day they decide to try Big Arb, and dump 30 gallons of water full of spiny water fleas! The next day Muskellunge. Then they go back home and hop on Geneva or Delevan.
Why wouldn't wake boat manufacturers issue a recall where they modify the ballast tank to more fully drain like a live well tank would? Lots of states have similar laws to Wisconsin.
If wake boat sales go down because the laws on the books start being enforced, I guarantee you they will fix this very quickly!
If we continue to give wake boats a pass, our lakes will get ruined day by day, one lake at a time...
I don't recall reading any article stating that "Wardens are afraid to pursue it too far for fear of getting sued and/or reprimanded". Can you provide a link or reference a publication? If its reprimanded, that tells me that lobbying on behalf of wake boat manufacturers and sellers has been effective in quashing law enforcement, which seems dubious, but possible.
Based upon the expansive powers granted to Wardens, I'm having a difficult time understanding any legal exposure. I mean, do Wardens get sued as individuals regularly for checking live wells? Can I just tell them "not accessible, take a walk?". And yes, as stated below, I believe that the Sec'y should put out word that enforcement of rules on the book should be immediately undertaken.
Based upon the expansive powers granted to Wardens, I'm having a difficult time understanding any legal exposure. I mean, do Wardens get sued as individuals regularly for checking live wells? Can I just tell them "not accessible, take a walk?". And yes, as stated below, I believe that the Sec'y should put out word that enforcement of rules on the book should be immediately undertaken.
"As Brent notes, there is absolutely no question that the wake boats as configured are breaking the law as written. This could be overcome with a simple emphasis placed upon it by the DNR secretary (Interim now?), directing Wardens to immediately begin enforcing State law uniformly."
Well, there is something stopping wardens from inspecting the ballasts and not enforcing the law uniformly - as stated in articles, wardens are afraid to pursue it too far for fear of getting sued and/or reprimanded. If the state reviews the law and believes there is evidence that all wake boats are breaking the rules, then the uppers should get the word out to the wardens and set policy for such inspections. There is obviously an issue where wardens are not comfortable for fear of legal retribution. Hopefully wardens are given the tools necessary so wake boats are treated the same as us regular fishermen.
Well, there is something stopping wardens from inspecting the ballasts and not enforcing the law uniformly - as stated in articles, wardens are afraid to pursue it too far for fear of getting sued and/or reprimanded. If the state reviews the law and believes there is evidence that all wake boats are breaking the rules, then the uppers should get the word out to the wardens and set policy for such inspections. There is obviously an issue where wardens are not comfortable for fear of legal retribution. Hopefully wardens are given the tools necessary so wake boats are treated the same as us regular fishermen.
I used to go the extra mile in my day when I had boats I carried 15 gallons of water and a gas powered washer I would pull of to the side someplace out of the way and power wash people would look I me like I was nuts my boats were always spotless, the live well I sprayed with a bleach solution also carried a small portable compressor to blow out lines as much as I could
People used to look when I was power washing and drive right past me with weeds hanging from their boat if you said something you were the bad guy you will never stop these people and there are getting more and more of them
People used to look when I was power washing and drive right past me with weeds hanging from their boat if you said something you were the bad guy you will never stop these people and there are getting more and more of them
Is this currently tied up in court? If not, it probably will be. The manufacturer of Wakes should be required by design that their equipment has to fully drain.
My question is, once you fully drain it, there can still be invasive s in the tank. How could you stop invasives? I think you can limit it, but even live wells can still be contaminated after draining.
This is a real tough situation for experts and Lawmakers to figure out.
My question is, once you fully drain it, there can still be invasive s in the tank. How could you stop invasives? I think you can limit it, but even live wells can still be contaminated after draining.
This is a real tough situation for experts and Lawmakers to figure out.
Agreed Fin Bender, State statutes and the written-for-laymen Boats Regs are not identical, nor does the latter necessarily carry the force of law. That said, a warden using reasonable discretion could certainly hold someone to the Boating Regs and let them battle out the language in court.
As Brent notes, there is absolutely no question that the wake boats as configured are breaking the law as written. This could be overcome with a simple emphasis placed upon it by the DNR secretary (Interim now?), directing Wardens to immediately begin enforcing State law uniformly. Hopefully, the citizens group now pushing this angle will get some traction.
As Brent notes, there is absolutely no question that the wake boats as configured are breaking the law as written. This could be overcome with a simple emphasis placed upon it by the DNR secretary (Interim now?), directing Wardens to immediately begin enforcing State law uniformly. Hopefully, the citizens group now pushing this angle will get some traction.
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